Question about challenge results and trick point score

General Discussion about Cryptic Comet's adventure strategy game

Question about challenge results and trick point score

Postby pianistamoeba » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:34 am

Does the difference in amount of trick points you lose/win a challenge actually affect what kind of/how much rewards are generated in the results phase? I'm asking to figure out, if there actually is a point in trying to win a trick with more than 10 points (when you apparently get the maximum 7 out of 10 result cards). Also, do the less rewarding challenges like horror/flee ones always generate at least one reward card? It'd be nice to know a bit more about the mechanics behind the rewards, since trying to maximize the chance for a good reward is quite essential part of the trick gambling tactics.
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Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:32 am

Re: Question about challenge results and trick point score

Postby Tiavals » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:52 am

Result of analysis:
Nothing really points to trick point amount affecting the quality or quantity of the reward(other than the amount of reward cards you get to choose). So being more than 10 points over the challenge probably doesn't give you anything better.

Wall-of-text version:
(Begins with my previous assumptions, which change as I analyze and go through the data. Meaning, I'm in fact probably wrong with what immediately follows.)

As far as my experience has shown, yes, the amount of trick points you pass the challenge by affects the quality of the reward. I'm not 100% sure though, it may just be an illusion based on that by the time I can usually pass challenges by a great amount, the difficulty of the challenges is also much greater than it is before and it may just be linked to the base difficulty of the challenge. (ie, when I have the best active abilities, I can take on foes like Abominations without breaking a sweat, and Abominations in general give better loot than Zombies, so it feels like I get better stuff due to having more Trick points, when it's just the different encounter having different rewards.)

Here's some data from the game files:

(One of the altars, stationary encounter)
rewardlist: [[#desecrateAltar: [#arcana: [15, 1], #GainCourage: [20, void], #GainTokens: [20, 1]], #dispelAltar: [#arcana: [15, 1], #GainCharges: [20, void], #GainTokens: [15, 1], #IncreaseSanity: [20, 1], #GainLuck: [10, 1]], #decipherAltar: [#arcana: [15, 1], #GainTokens: [15, 1], #IncreaseSanity: [20, 1], #GainLuck: [19, 1]]]]

Dusk Gaunt(roaming monster)
rewardlist: [[#encAttack: [#IncreaseHealth: [5, 2], #GainTokens: [5, 1]], #flee: [#IncreaseSanity: [5, 1]]]]

rewardlist: [[#psychicduelKN: [#IncreaseSanity: [15, 2], #GainTokens: [15, 1], #GainWard: [6, void]], #encSorceryKN: [#IncreaseSanity: [15, 2], #GainTokens: [15, 1], #GainCharges: [10, void], #GainWard: [3, void]], #fleeKN: [#IncreaseSanity: [5, 5]]]]

Cigar smoker
rewardlist: [[#completeQuest: [#arcana: [10, 1], #IncreaseHealth: [5, 2], #GainTokens: [5, 1]]]]

rewardlist: [[#completeQuest: [#arcana: [20, 1], #IncreaseHealth: [5, 2], #GainTokens: [15, 1], #GainItemPentacles: [15, #arcanePentacles]]]]

rewardlist: [[#encAttack: [#IncreaseHealth: [15, 2], #GainTokens: [15, 1]], #flee: [#IncreaseSanity: [1, 1]]]]

Acid spray trap
rewardlist: [[#evadeTrap: [#IncreaseHealth: [15, 2], #GainTokens: [5, 1], #GainLuck: [5, 1]], #evadeTrap2: [#IncreaseHealth: [15, 2], #GainTokens: [5, 1], #GainLuck: [5, 1]]]]

Deathslide trap
rewardlist: [[#evadeTrap: [#IncreaseHealth: [5, 2], #GainTokens: [15, 1], #GainLuck: [22, void]], #evadeTrap2: [#IncreaseHealth: [5, 2], #GainTokens: [15, 1], #GainLuck: [22, void]]]]

Floating Eye
rewardlist: [[#encAttack: [#IncreaseHealth: [15, 2], #GainTokens: [15, 1], #GainLuck: [5, 1]], #encSorcery: [#IncreaseSanity: [15, 2], #GainTokens: [15, 1], #GainLuck: [5, 1]], #flee: [#IncreaseSanity: [1, 1]]]]

Without knowing what those numbers stand for, it's hard to say what they mean. Take "#IncreaseSanity: [15, 2]" for instance. Does the 15 mean the percentage chance a single card is of this variety? Does it mean the surplus amount of trick points you need to have to get this reward? Does the second number(2 in this case) mean the amount of cards that can have this reward or something else, such as the maximum amount stuff you'll get per card(amount of sanity gained for instance)? For example, is it that if you succeed at 15 points more in the challenge than the normal rating, would it then add 2 IncreaseSanity type cards to the potential reward set of 10 cards? So, 2 of the 10 cards are IncreaseSanity, and your 7 cards of choice can try to find them? Or does it mean that each card has a 15% chance of being IncreaseSanity, with 2 being the potential maximum of that type of cards you could find?(so once 2 cards on the 10 reward options are of this sort, it no longer checks if any more are such cards?)

The Deathslide trap has these choices:
#evadeTrap: [#IncreaseHealth: [5, 2], #GainTokens: [15, 1], #GainLuck: [22, void]]
What does it mean that the GainLuck has "void" in the second option? Coding wise, it means that it won't return a number to the other part of code asking for it. We know that you'll always get just one luck for each luck-increase card you find, but can you find more than one luck card per reward phase? Don't remember. Now, let's see another example.
#GainCharges: [20, void]
On the other hand, spell charges do come in random amounts. This makes it hard to make any assumptions regarding what the number means. Perhaps charges are always randomized between 1-5 per card.

Then there's stuff like this.
#GainItemPentacles: [15, #arcanePentacles]
Obviously the second number is replaced by a tag for a pentacles item. Let's assume that the second number is indeed the quality of the reward of a single card of the 10 cards, in some way, instead of the quantity of reward cards of this type on the reward field. This possibly contradicts the previous evidence of the "void" in the GainCharges example.
The second number can't be the amount of reward cards of the type on the 10 choices, because there's stuff that have "void" or "arcanePentacles" instead of a number. Thus, logically, something else governs the amount of rewards of a type you can find in an encounter. Can we assume that the first number is the percentual chance of finding a given type of card as a reward, then? I'm guessing that the answer is yes. It seems to me that each time you reveal a card(or when the 10 cards are generated), it randomizes a number between 1-100 for each card. Using this as an example:
[#IncreaseHealth: [5, 2], #GainTokens: [15, 1], #GainLuck: [22, void]]
If the randomized number is 1-5, the resulting card is one that gives you more health, if it's between 6-20, it's expertise tokens, 21-42 is a luck card, 43-100 is nothing. Perhaps the second number then determines the amount of stuff you'll get in a relative tiered manner. So, a second number of 2 instead of 1 means that the amount of, say, Health you get per card picked, is generally more. Possibly meaning 1 gives 1 or 2, 2 gives 3 or 4, or such. Or that it randomises the reward quality between 1 and the number. So, 2 means you'll get 1 or 2 per card of the type.(50/50 chance for either). 3 would mean you get 1, 2 or 3(33/33/33 chances). I'm guessing the latter is more likely to be true.

Whatever the case, nothing that I can deduce points to having more trick points as affecting the reward, other than the amount of cards you get to pick. It could be either of the two numbers is related to the "overflow" of trick points you get, but I find it highly doubtful. Trick amount already affects the amount of draws, so it's unlikely to affect anything else, from a design point of view.

Now to wait for Vic to say what the truth is in 5 words. :evil:
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Re: Question about challenge results and trick point score

Postby pianistamoeba » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:46 pm

Thanks! I try not to dig in the data files myself, in order not to spoil myself the mystery of the game mechanics (I mostly prefer them as myriad as they are).

Tiavals wrote:...As far as my experience has shown, yes, the amount of trick points you pass the challenge by affects the quality of the reward.

I was sure about this myself in the beginning, but then started getting no results on challenges I won by 20-30 points. It seems indeed that generation of every result is governed by separate toss from RNG. Maybe mr. Davis could indeed shed some light into the mystery without spoiling too much of the surprises?
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Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:32 am

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