1.05 Pushback changes

General Discussion about Cryptic Comet's adventure strategy game

1.05 Pushback changes

Postby NecRus888 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:57 am

Hi!
I've just played new 1.05 version with pushback changes. I've tried my usual mentalist build and i didn't see any negative results, played more comfortable as in 1.04. Maybe should make more evil pushback??? :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: 1.05 Pushback changes

Postby Vic Davis » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:26 pm

You should see some of your Increase Health and Increase Sanity cards flip to negatives but it won't be overwhelming.

For example lets say you use two psychic talent cards and generate 20 pushback. On the next turn your have an encounter and succeed. The results phase creates 2 Increase Sanity cards so two checks are made. The first one has 20/2 = 10% chance that it will flip to a negative card. The next one has a 10/2 = 5% chance that it will flip to a negative.

Do let me know if you don't see any of this. I might need to adjust the attenuation of the pushback or even the divisor. The idea was to just add some more risk into the use of these abilities but not to completely nerf it.
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Re: 1.05 Pushback changes

Postby NecRus888 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:34 pm

Idea is great, and i like it much. But i think you should increase this chance.
Anyway i will play more today and will post my expiriense here
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Re: 1.05 Pushback changes

Postby NecRus888 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:10 pm

Ok! After a new game session i can say: i've played Elder scenario with Mentalist build in Agent difficulty. I've met negative effect from pushbake after winning the challenge ONCE for a full game, which i've won.
And i really think you should increase this chance.

Also, need to notice that i've take more exp points like before. Did you change this?
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Re: 1.05 Pushback changes

Postby Frothy_mikhael » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:32 pm

I will comment once I've had a chance to play a Mentalist under the new rules. But I think that posters should recall that pushback is directed at the worst kind of psychic power abuse: multiple uses of vaporize mind per encounter, or third eye+dominate all the cards on the board. I would assume that if you don't do that, your chance of getting bonuses turned into minuses is pretty slim. As it should be. One mind shield or third eye per encounter shouldn't lead to punitive sanctions. The standard pushback mechanics should take care of less extensive use of psychic powers.
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Re: 1.05 Pushback changes

Postby NecRus888 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:13 am

Frothy_mikhael wrote:I will comment once I've had a chance to play a Mentalist under the new rules. But I think that posters should recall that pushback is directed at the worst kind of psychic power abuse: multiple uses of vaporize mind per encounter, or third eye+dominate all the cards on the board. I would assume that if you don't do that, your chance of getting bonuses turned into minuses is pretty slim. As it should be. One mind shield or third eye per encounter shouldn't lead to punitive sanctions. The standard pushback mechanics should take care of less extensive use of psychic powers.

I don't need to abuse psyhictalents. Just use vaporize mind and terrorize, and all is ok! Only one psyhic talent gives you advantage in most combat and psychic encounters. Also Wands is primary parameters now. I need to repeat: i've succesfully completed Elder scenario played with Mentalist build by using vaporize mind and terrorize; mentalist-wands build gives you more comfort then any other builds trought all mission
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Re: 1.05 Pushback changes

Postby Frothy_mikhael » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:07 pm

NecRus888, I agreed that Wands builds are the most powerful, especially if you start with Mentalist as your occupation.

I've played a bit as a Mentalist with the new setting. I think that the new pushback measures are a good change and prevent seriously abusive psy-spam, particularly late-game, like when you can cast several powers 3-4 times in a single encounter. The new pushback will prevent that from happening in any but the most dire circumstances, since the danger of being killed by your own "reward" cards is too high.

However... two points I'd like to make on balancing psy-powers.

(1) If I generate 100+ points of pushback in a single encounter (very easy, particularly if I fail it once then win and use lots of psy powers both times), I can avoid the almost certain damage from pushback in the "win" results panel by just not choosing any cards! As long as I'm not desperately in need of health/sanity/skill points (which in the basement, I probably won't be) there isn't really a big penalty to not picking results. Unless it's the kind of encounter that gives talismans/items/major arcana on a regular basis, I'm not really losing much. So a smart player can avoid this new punishment mechanism altogether.

(2) I think one of the issues that needs to be dealt with is the overly-powerful nature of some psy powers. Pushback alone will not fix this. Example: Mindshield should not give a king on a 4+. Instead, it should be 5-6 or even just 6+. Move page to the most common, or split it 1-2 page, 3-4 knight, 5 queen, 6 king. Otherwise spamming mindshield makes it way too easy to win any horror or psychic challenge. Equally, I think (edit)vaporize mind(/edit) needs to be nerfed somehow. Either it should add half the number of points rolled to our score (effectively a D3 rather than a D6) or the extra trick it puts on the table should be removed, or some other step should be taken, like forcing the player to discard a card from their hand to use it. Or something. I don't necessarily know what, but I do know that it's the most powerful ability in the game, especially once you have the multi-use edge and the edge that adds points to your trick score whenever you use a psychic talent to increase your trick score. Adding D6+4 to your score 3-4 times is lightyears better than any other talent or ability. Critical hit comes closest, but that one requires a ranged weapon and I don't think there is any edge that lets you use heroic feats multiple times (correct me if I'm wrong).
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