A few comments and suggests after playing 1.06

A few comments and suggests after playing 1.06

Postby Capn Darwin » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:19 am

For 1.06
Interface:
1. the addition of the VP counter on card is nice, but I still would like to see either at the top or bottom fo the card a track with the following: VPs/Cash/Dudes/Deeds. I think that would help info situational awareness in the game a bunch. Minor bug: The VP on card tracker is not updating at the same time as the one in the lower right. Minor code update issue for the new object.

2. When using abilities the "wierd" enemies are listed and probably should not be.

3. Not sure if this is a bug, but when doing the After Dark weird card 3 times and doing damage to the vampire 2 of those 3 and taking no damage in any of the three, I did not receive cards or VPs. The AI appeared to take damage and get both cards and VPs.

4. Suggestion: Color code the text in the selection boxes and in the info window with the leaders colors. This would help with ID and knowing who did what to who easier.

AI:
1. Plays a meaner better game in this version. Goes after easy VPs more and spends less time not doing anything apparenlty waiting for a "better" situation.

Overall ideas/suggestions:
1. Addition of counter abilities with a dollar cost. Things like "Sneak out of Town" to counter Lynching, "Rabbits Foot" to counter Jinks, "Snake Oil" to counter a damage/skill reducer, "Water Bucket" to stop a deed loss, etc. This would force players to decide to keep the cards plus having to pay to use the ability when they are attacked by another player.

2. I'd still like to see VP counters on the mission cards and as posted below a timer to cycle them out. The weird missions are a cool idea. It might be cool to see some regular missions with those kind of low level tasks for card, VPs or cash.

Great update! Thanks!


:shock: Updated - 19Jul11 :shock:
A fun game to play much like AE, but I do see some areas for interface improvement to help the player out while playing and also along with the others in here a few commonts on the combat system.

For 1.05
Interface:
1. It would be nice if the main player cards at the top showed current dollars in the upper right and current VPs in the upper left so a quick scan of the player cards would give an idea of the game overall status. Right now you have to go though click and hovers to get the info.
2. I'd like to see a graphic in the bunkhouse screen showning closed off slots. Also on the player card a "Bunkhouse Full" status text would be great too.
3. By default it would be nice to see the AI players actions. There could be an option to turn this off. In many cases you miss things going on between the AI players. :shock: Seeing targeted actions AI to AI or just AI only would be nice too. You can mouse hop all of the icons and see what happened, but it would be cleaner and quicker to just see the message.
4. It would be nice to see a VP remaining counter on the mission cards. Also first required on the card would be helpful.
:shock: 5. Having a dedicated message window with scrolling may be a better way then the popup dialog box too. Next to the window could be the continue button for moving to the next player.
:shock: 6. Some flavor/action text combos are too long for the card and fall of the bottom. Seems to happen more with townsfolks and long action descriptions.
:shock: 5. Save some mouse clicks and have dudes in the bunkhouse auto move to a single posse.

Gameplay:
1. Lynching ability seems too powerful. Other cards deal damage which is fine. This card kills outright. It either needs a chance of failing or change it to a duel between shooters of the players choice.
2. Place a countdown time on mission cards. Maybe 20% of the game turns or less. That way games don't get locked up because players do not have the right cards to go claim a mission. I had a two player game burn 10+ turns until it timed out. Also had a three player game stall a number of turns as well. If some one jumps on the card the timer can reset. Other option would be some form of random timer that changes an unused mission.
3. Have lower VP missions with multiple types of allowed first units. This could also be set to "any" just to keep the action going. The tighter the entry requirements the higher the VP payoff.
:shock: 4. Jinx - Another seemingly overpowered card. Maybe less cards, maybe random.
:shock: 5. Any posse on mission actions. In over a dozen games I have yet to be able to play a single one. Either I'm doing something wrong, but I'm not seeing the action Icon, or my possies jump off the card in one turn and I do not get the chance to play them. I think the turn timing of use cards, then move, then end turn, start new turn, posse jumps back to bunkhouse leaves me no chance to play these cards.

Combat:
1. I like the poker style of determination of results, but it has no poker feel. It also does not allow for both sides to take hits. I like the Texas holdem style, but you should consider allowing folks to play the hand. Each player could have or get delt the 2 cards. If one or both sides fold the possies retreat with no damage. If they stay in then flop three cards. Players can stay or retreat but this time the retreating team takes 1 damage, then the Turn card repeat with 2 damage if you bail and then the River card for 3 points. After that resolve the hands for normal damage.
:shock: The system does grow on you after a while. Granted it is all or nothing on who gets hit (for hits), but it gets the job done. I'd probalbly like to see the fights slow down a bit by first playing the flop, show results, have the option to fold(run) taking the current hits. Do the turn and stay or run, then the river.
This would allow for some lower damage to start and more if you stay, plus the outcome may change as the hand is completed.

Minor Items:
1. The manual pdf file should be SGS not SSG.

Fun game. Keep up the good work!
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Re: A few comments and suggests after playing 1.06

Postby Capn Darwin » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:08 pm

Bump for new 1.06 comments. :D
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Re: A few comments and suggests after playing 1.06

Postby manveruppd » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:28 am

I'm on 1.07, feels smoother and more balanced, and the Weird West cards add some great extra flavour, nice one Vic! :) Like the OP, I still would've preferred a more interactive combat system, but I won't get into that, I explained what I didn't like about it in another thread.

I am really tempted to get some cardboard and cutting off some crude cards to make this into a REAL card game though! :P You'd be a fool if you don't try to lisence it to some boardgame company, honestly!
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Re: A few comments and suggests after playing 1.06

Postby Vic Davis » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:48 pm

Thanks for the encouragement. It's nice to get a few kind words every now and then. I've had a flurry of emails over the last couple of days from upset people telling me that I'm crazy to raise the price on the game and that they will post their keys and torrent the game. I would think they would be happy they got a discount? The AI sucks so I should be punished. So far none of the emails have matched a real customer though. I'm actually thinking seriously about dipping my toe back into the physical goods production world. I dread the thought of my garage filled up with boxes but I have some board game prototypes that I would like to try out....maybe follow the P500 model type thing. Who knows? :)
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Re: A few comments and suggests after playing 1.06

Postby lovemygod316 » Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:08 pm

Vic Davis wrote:Thanks for the encouragement. It's nice to get a few kind words every now and then. I've had a flurry of emails over the last couple of days from upset people telling me that I'm crazy to raise the price on the game and that they will post their keys and torrent the game. I would think they would be happy they got a discount? The AI sucks so I should be punished. So far none of the emails have matched a real customer though. I'm actually thinking seriously about dipping my toe back into the physical goods production world. I dread the thought of my garage filled up with boxes but I have some board game prototypes that I would like to try out....maybe follow the P500 model type thing. Who knows? :)


Are you saying that you admit the AI sucks or that people are accusing you of the AI sucking? BTW, I bought this game when it was still in beta and I thoroughly enjoy it. I guess my only complaint would be that it does seem a little easy. The only time I have lost was when I used my boss in a posse to tackle a story card and got him killed.
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Re: A few comments and suggests after playing 1.06

Postby VoxDei » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:43 pm

Figure I'll throw in my two penn'orth, having played a few games now...

1. The netbook feature is a godsend. I'm always looking for good games to run on my netbook, I bought this on the strength of your previous two games and the netbook feature pretty much alone (I did play the demo, but I don't know if I'd have bought this one if it would only run on my desktop - maybe, maybe not).

2. It's a fun little game - it isn't as deep as AE or SI, but then it isn't meant to be. Enjoyable, anyway.

3. I like the poker combat (unlike some of the other comments I don't see a need for that to be more interactive in the sense of choosing who shoots what, or whatever - this is a bit different and it's interesting). However, I think it could be developed further - as it is there is only limited benefit to playing a card to a posse as against using its action or selling it (unless maybe you're playing Boss Snead, I haven't played him yet). You're expending the card, but unless you can play a pair in one go you're likely to not get that much benefit from it, and the chance element means that you can't think about it in cost/benefit terms too easily. I think it'd be nice to play it as a proper Texas Hold 'em hand - you get your hole cards, which the other guy can't see, and the flop, then you bet your gunfight points (or health points, maybe?) in three rounds of betting. This allows an element of bluff, as in real poker.

Alternatively, if that's too hard to code then move away from Texas Hold 'Em and just go for five-card stud, and let players play up to five cards on a posse, with whatever they don't play coming from the deck. So you can make a posse really difficult to beat for a single hand by playing a royal flush on it, if you can, but you'll need to sacrifice exactly the right cards to do that and it'll only last one fight.

4. Could do with more dudes who aren't Outlaws - there seems to be a whole lot of them a few lawmen and gunfighters and then only a small number of military (at least discounting cannons etc., which I don't hire) or cowboy dudes (there's only a few apaches as well, but since they can't be in a posse with other dudes you wouldn't want too many anyway). Also, is it just me or do all the cowboys suck? Sure, they've got high health, but that's of limited use if you've got rubbish gunfight skill. Don't think I've ever decided the upkeep is worth hiring one.

5. Starting first and then having every other player use "They say you is jinxed" on me in the first two turns (which has happened more than once) tends to cause me to re-start the game - it's just lame. I imagine it's because I've got a large number of cards and more dudes etc. having started the game, but it's not fun and there's no penalty for re-starting. Might be nice to put something in to stop that ability coming out on any cards drawn in the first two or three turns?

6. Can we have some sort of quick-start option that just uses default options and randomises all the bosses? I always play on random anyway, it's a little annoying to have to select "Random" four times at the start of the game. Alternatively just remember the last settings used when starting a new game and use them as the defaults.

7. Multiplayer? :P

Most of that's pretty picky though, enjoyed it. :)
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