Play card as poker value

Play card as poker value

Postby Butterknife » Sat May 28, 2011 8:18 pm

I never use "Play card as poker value." It just never seems worth it. I also haven't seen the AI do it much (haven't played a whole lot yet, so maybe I am just not paying enough attention). Admittedly I have only played 3 games so far, so it may be premature. However, I wanted to get a discussion going about this and see what other people think.

It just seems like there is always something better you can do with your cards. I think a good fix may be this: Don't give out free cards in the "hole". That way, even low-level cards suddenly become useful for their poker value (not just in pairs). Pairs, straights and so on will be more rare but a player who spends a couple of cards in the hole would have a much better chance of a good hand than someone who spends nothing, regardless of gunfight value. The problem with giving out free cards to everyone every match is that I stand a good chance of getting good "hole" cards and there just isn't a very big chance of your assigned cards (which could have been used for a bucketload of cash) to be that much better than what I get randomly.
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Re: Play card as poker value

Postby Vic Davis » Sat May 28, 2011 8:27 pm

The Ai will use hole cards to boost its chances in key combats or defending key story cards. If you put an ace kicker or a pair on a posse then you have tilted the odds a bit in your favor. It's much less painful to use the cards this way if you have already got your economy going and you have your posses established and out on the board.
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Re: Play card as poker value

Postby tgb » Sat May 28, 2011 8:28 pm

I've done it when I could put a pair in the hole on the same turn. Having that pair has won me gunfights I would have otherwise lost.
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Re: Play card as poker value

Postby ker » Sat May 28, 2011 8:46 pm

For what it's worth, I share Butterknife's feeling (and, likewise, I'm not sure if I've just not played enough...). I haven't had much luck with getting good combinations of poker cards in my (Boss's) hand to give to the posses so I rarely (well, never, so far) want to take the option. I was thinking it might make sense to make the poker cards permanently attached to a posse so you could use the poker cards as an upgrade to the posses... Don't know. Will form a definite opinion later :P
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Re: Play card as poker value

Postby x_kot » Sun May 29, 2011 1:43 am

Assuming that the cards dealt come from a standard deck that is shuffled before each combat, the addition of even one selected card makes it easier to get a match. Adding two same value cards compounds that (along with increasing chances of getting a full house), while adding two cards of the same suit makes flushes more likely. Generally speaking, the player with chosen hole cards has better odds of getting a good hand; even a single low card or a pair of low cards can make an appreciable difference.
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Re: Play card as poker value

Postby Butterknife » Sun May 29, 2011 3:41 am

x_kot wrote:Assuming that the cards dealt come from a standard deck that is shuffled before each combat, the addition of even one selected card makes it easier to get a match. Adding two same value cards compounds that (along with increasing chances of getting a full house), while adding two cards of the same suit makes flushes more likely. Generally speaking, the player with chosen hole cards has better odds of getting a good hand; even a single low card or a pair of low cards can make an appreciable difference.


Yes, obviously having a pair in the hole can make a difference. How does a single low card make any difference though? Also, I'm not arguing that it doesn't make a statistical difference -- I know it does. What I am arguing is that it doesn't make enough of a difference to offset the opportunity cost of using the card in a more productive way (such as cashing it out). If you increase your odds of winning by 1%, it isn't worth doing. If you increase your odds by 25%, it may be worth it. I'm not good enough at math to know the actual odds, but it doesn't seem worth it.
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Re: Play card as poker value

Postby x_kot » Sun May 29, 2011 5:18 am

Sure, I concede it is highly contextual. A lot may depend on the strength of your posses, the strength of enemy posses, your cashflow, applicability of available actions, etc. It's entirely possible to structure your plan to not use hole cards at all. However, I would argue that it works best for cash-limited players who cannot afford to field many dudes - the hole cards, in conjunction with ambushes, present an alternative strategy. Perhaps one way the choice could be made more desirable is to increase the number hole cards one can bank. That would be cool and not be too overpowered an adjustment.
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Re: Play card as poker value

Postby TurinTuramba » Sun May 29, 2011 2:39 pm

Just having the higher card increases your odds of winning by ~10%. That's quite a substantial boost in my opinion. Pairs are in the 70-80% range against random cards. So for key fights it definitely seems worthwile.
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Re: Play card as poker value

Postby Butterknife » Sun May 29, 2011 3:56 pm

TurinTuramba wrote:Just having the higher card increases your odds of winning by ~10%. That's quite a substantial boost in my opinion. Pairs are in the 70-80% range against random cards. So for key fights it definitely seems worthwile.


If that is true then I agree, it would definitely be worthwhile.
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Re: Play card as poker value

Postby Butterknife » Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:30 am

Now that I have played several more games, I have to say that it still isn't worthwhile to play cards as their poker value. Although it helps you win a fight, it will only help you win one fight, after which the cards disappear. So you can stack up a nice pair on a good stack, but after they are ambushed or fight even one fight against a suicidal AI charge, the cards are gone; and you wasted 2 cards that you could have put into something worthwhile.
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