Tactics: Single Combat

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Re: Tactics: Single Combat

Postby darkelf732 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:27 pm

I think your luck always counts as a shield for your praetor regardless of what move you do.

My praetor with 20 hp, did Oath of Retribution with 2 orbs and rolled 3 luck. The AI's praetor with 13 hp, did Melee Attack with 5 skulls and rolled 1 luck. The result was that the AI's praetor took 9 damage. Since 6 * 3 = 18, my luck must have prevented 3 of the damage before Oath tripled and reflected the damage. His 1 luck didn't prevent any damage. I think that was because my damage was orb based, not because he did Melee Attack instead of Guarded Attack but I need to do more tests on the AI to make sure.

From the manual, Melee Damage = (Number of Skulls by aggressor + aggressing Praetor’s Luck Roll) - (number of Shields by defender + defending Praetor’s Luck Roll). I take that to mean that regardless of what you do, each Luck is always counted as a shield.
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Re: Tactics: Single Combat

Postby John Mc » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:49 pm

Oh, I know that luck always blocks melee damage, doesn't matter what move you do. Here's the question though:

Take my above example, now put 1 luck for Praetor A. Does Praetor B take 2 more damage or 1 more?

Alternatively, give the luck to Praetor B. Does Praetor B take 2 less damage or 1 less?

I'm inclined to think that then answer in both cases is 2. However, the wording for Impale is "do 1 point of damage for each assigned Shield that exceeds your opponent's assigned Skulls." This suggests a straight across comparison of shields and skulls, but lord knows that the wording could just be misleading.
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Re: Tactics: Single Combat

Postby Kelron » Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:54 am

Does the damage absorbtion from Impenetrable Stance, Veil of Smoke and Obsidian Skin stack? I had a praetor with both Impenetrable Stance and Veil of Smoke, and never took any damage fighting Pandemonium's champions by putting them in the first two slots. At the time, I didn't think to do the maths on whether Impenetrable Stance alone would have absorbed all the damage.
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Re: Tactics: Single Combat

Postby twentyeighth » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:23 pm

John Mc, this is a thorough thread. Well done.

I'd like to add that it's sometimes wise to buy up any Praetors who could challenge your authority. Create a stable of warriors, if you will. It's a particularly good tactic if one chooses the Arena Gambler perk for his avatar.

So far I've had fun calculating the probabilities of Praetor success based on in-game circumstances. Like you say, information is almost as good as a strong Praetor. Victory takes a lot of note taking and the assumption that any enemy will have the worst combination of unclaimed Praetors and Manuscripts that have made their way to your notes but not surfaced during play.
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Re: Tactics: Single Combat

Postby John Mc » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:15 pm

Thanks, I'm glad you like it.

As for buying up threatening Praetors, I absolutely agree. It's a case by case basis of course, but in general I try to buy any awesome praetor that comes up. You never know when fate will take away your favorite praetor...
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Re: Tactics: Single Combat

Postby Marble Mouth » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:19 am

This is a great resource here John MC. Thank you for doing this.

If you train a praetor with the same combat move twice, the training will be successful and it will show up on his list twice. If you assign that combat move to any phase of combat, both instances of that move will be unavailable for all other combat phases. I had hoped to inflict two bleeding wounds at the start of combat, but that's not allowed. I speculate this may not be intended functionality, but I really dunno.

I've had a problem that I've seen other people mention around here. The praetor combat moves screen has no scroll bars, even if you train your praetor so much that it ought to. I have a workaround. If you assign a trained combat move to a phase (i.e. not MA, MB, GA or IB) then that move is removed from your list when assigning any other phase. So if you can't get to the move you want to assign in phase 1, just assign some other moves in other phases until your list is small enough that you can see the move you need.

I think Vile Oath of Consumption and Oath of Retribution bear special mention. All other combat moves have an upper limit to damage. The damage on Vile Oath is random, but it rolls so many dice every time that it is very consistent. Vile Oath does an average of 15 damage from a praetor with the minimum 6 orbs. It does ~30 damage at a shot on a praetor with 12 orbs, which Morax starts with. If you expect enemies with even more than 30 hp between their actual hp and the defensive moves they frontload, then increasing your orbs further increases the expected damage by 2.5 per orb. Frontloading Vile Oath leads to fairly easy phase 1 kills unless you run into just the right counter-measures. There are no defensive moves that can scale their protection at the rate that Vile Oath scales its damage.

Recently, I was looking at the present champion of Pandemonium, planning how to attack her. The Queen of the Damned had Blood Boil, Oath of Retribution, and Veil of Smoke. The Oath really worried me most. If I used Impale at or close to its full strength, then I ran the risk of bumping into the Oath of Retribution in that slot and dealing roughly 30 damage to myself. I say roughly because my Luck and her Luck are still rolled to contribute to Impale damage. I decided to leave Impale off my battle plan entirely for that fight. I got lucky and assigned Obsidian Skin in the phase where she used Oath, but I had made sure to deal no more than 7 damage in any single phase, including the Luck rolls. Playing against an expected Oath of Retribution is possibly trickier than against Vile Oath.

This should be easy enough to test out, but has anyone else already tried? If so many praetors get purchased from the bazaar that there are none left to sell, then they just stop respawning there, I assume. After that point, will the bazaar forever remain praetor-less, or can dead praetors respawn there?

If you control the current champion of Pandemonium, can you set the moves you'll do in your battles to defend the title? If so, how? Challenging the current champion always happens immediately when I'm fighting Butcher, Queen of the Damned, Grey Prince, or Bal'rag. If it works like that when another player challenges me as the champion, then I don't have a turn to respond, when I'd normally be setting my combat moves for a single combat vendetta.
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Re: Tactics: Single Combat

Postby Sord » Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:56 pm

Once all the praetors have been bought, the bazaar will remain empty of praetors for the remainder of the game. There is an event that allows you to recover a praetor from the abyss, and you can always try using the deceit ritual to bribe one away from an opponent.
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