Public Objectives

Post your Tips, Tricks and Hints on how to advance your House's claim on the Infernal Throne

Re: Public Objectives

Postby b0rsuk » Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:55 am

jeanpaolo wrote:@ b0rsuk: I don't know why it was constraining in a bad way for you.


Maybe I wish boosting stats wasn't such a central part of gameplay, and you could do well by spending in other areas.

Achieving gluttony must be a separate objective, otherwise any archfiend who prefers to build up their stats will just choose gluttony.


And this, I think, is a problem. The public objectives aren't meaningful enough, apparently. Pride, Envy and other should be more enticing. As it is, I see players choosing the objective that stays out of the way the most, meaning:
- lowest archfiend points cost
- no restriction on behaviour

If Prestige goes into 200 and more, I'm not surprised people don't care about 30...

Kill two birds with one stone. For that problem with the archfiend you described, remember you don't have to do gluttony until the very last few turns. By that time I think you'd have boosted your stats enough that gettting 35 souls isn't much of an effort.

Finally, 40-45 prestige should be the default for most public objectives. 30 isn't much of a game changer especially with secret objectives added in.


That, or relics and PoP's are worth too much. Seing as Solium Infernum already uses small integers, it would be hard to make PoP's and Relics give less Prestige. So it's probably to double value of everything else, and leave PoPs / Relics unchanged.
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Re: Public Objectives

Postby John Mc » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:27 pm

The change I'd like to see is this: Public Objectives don't give or take Fiend Points, but they're balanced based on how many Prestige Points they give. After all, harder goals are more impressive when completed. It'd be nice if there were a couple more Fiend Points in the pool to make up for this though.
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Re: Public Objectives

Postby Marble Mouth » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:10 pm

I only ever take Gluttony, now. I've tried the rest. They're never worth it to me.
Pride: Spend Fiend Points for a smaller (albeit trivial) objective
Envy: Get no Fiend Points back in order to out yourself as a cunning/prince of lies build
Wrath: no points back, not especially easy to accomplish
Sloth: I tried this on my first avatar. I quickly decided I was just going to fail it. I can't imagine wanting this objective. It doesn't makes sense to fulfill Sloth unless you both care about prestige and lose less than 30 prestige by avoiding diplomacy all game.
Lust: Points back! I still opt for Gluttony every time. Gluttony is a semi-secret objective in that no one else can tell if you've fulfilled it, unlike lust. It's also not always possible to satisfy lust, but gluttony is always an option if you have enough time to finish it.
Greed: Honorable mention. If I can satisfy Gluttony at will, I'm playing CHA and if I'm playing CHA, I can also satisfy Greed at will. But Greed costs Fiend Points. And Greed also shouts "I'm stockpiling tribute," or equivalently "Loot my vaults," while Gluttony only says "I'm generating and then destroying lots of tribute." Looting the vaults is reliably profitable if you know looting the right player will always grab 8 cards or so.

My experience with this game so far is mostly single player and solo hotseat to test stuff. Based on that limited experience, I'd like to see Fiend Point costs removed from public objectives. Alternately, I'd like to see them rearranged because I think Envy, Sloth, Greed and Wrath are harder to accomplish and/or more of a liability than Gluttony. I haven't used Lust enough to comment on it. Pride is there for the AI as far as I can tell. It's just an easy 10 prestige for them. I'm only starting to get into PBEM now. Do these objectives have to be re-evaluated wildly in a multiplayer context? The only extra consideration I anticipate is using one (e.g. Envy or Wrath) to send misleading signals. Still seems like a waste of Fiend Points.

I've also often found 30 prestige to be too little reward to influence my overall strategy far enough to accomplish objectives in many of my games. I gather this could change in multiplayer, where accruing a 300 point prestige lead is more likely to result in your murder than your victory. 30 prestige will also matter more in short games where prestige totals are necessarily lower. Perhaps it could be an option on map setup? I'd like to scale the reward of public objectives to the game length, as an 80 turn games has twice as many turns for PoP's and relics to generate prestige as a 40 turn game.
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Re: Public Objectives

Postby Sord » Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:42 pm

Gluttony and Lust are the ONLY public objectives worth considering. They are picked only for the 3 bonus build points, not for the bonus prestige.

However, since you do have to choose between them:

Gluttony has the advantage that if you care about completing it (meaning your in the running for the lead), you can complete it. Plus, there tend to be a few turns at the end of the game where there isn't enough time to start working on new goals, so you might have extra tribute to burn anyway. Downside is that you might have to choose between Gluttony and some other form of prestige gathering (like Burnt Offerings), resulting in net gain of less than 30 prestige.

Lust has the advantage that it is completed by capturing a place of power, which is something you are likely to want to do anyway. If you are in the running for the lead, I'd guess you have a 30% chance of having the right PoP with NO effort (beyond capturing PoPs for prestige). With just a bit of effort (e.g. choose to head north instead of south), you can probably boost that to over 50%. Downside is that if the right PoP isn't near you, or if other leaders also picked Lust, you might not have any real hope of getting it.

Lust is a gamble on the map layout, while Gluttony may come at a cost of other options. I personally tend towards the consistency of Gluttony, but may pick Lust if I know I'm going to have a strong starting legion.
si.battlespot.com - the wiki for Solium Infernum
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Re: Public Objectives

Postby Chaosguy » Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:50 pm

It seems that Vic's intent was that the game is played in a "win-at-all-costs" fashion-- and thats what makes it fun. The public objective is a bonus if you can achieve it, possibly directing the flavor/style of your game, but its obviously not designed to be a main focus.

That said (and with the caveat that my Mp experience is very low) I think a lot of these posts overrate the numbers factor a bit too much. From best to worst I read it like this:

Gluttony-- as stated for the reasons above, this is the best MP public objective. Whether or not you've achieved it or are even bothering with it, no one knows until end game. Sure, some rituals might slow you down a bit, but its not really worth an opponents effort to seeing you don't achieve it if youre trying.

Envy-- whoa whoa whoa, new guy-- you're not putting Lust 2nd ?! No. Lust is a total crap shoot as explained below. Envy is very doable. You forego 3 point to take this compared to Gluttony, but realistically thats raising one attribute from 0 to 1-- thats all 3 points gets you. With charisma lvl 3 thats one request for tribute. One order slot, not even a full turn is the only difference between gluttony & Envy. "But you're wearing a giant sign on your chest saying 'I'm the one doing the deceit rituals!!' ". So? Whadda they gonna do about it? By the time turn 15-20 rolls around, no one is going to want to screw with you. Taking envy might be a bad thing if you land next to someone interested in fostering their prestige with a ground war early game-- after that brief window-- you're golden. (Even in the prestige war-- your starting legion is going to be quite good, based on stacking points in cunning).

Lust-- this one appeals to our inner nerd, since youre defintetly not taking it in hopes you can actually acheive the PoP. Its more hoping for a good roll of the dice of chance than it is skill. Sure-- if you wind up in position where theres only one fiend between you and the temple, then we can talk about 50/50 choice of movement etc. & skill can come into play. But what if its two fiends? Your public objective is no longer feasible. Not without major circumstance turning in your favor-- again "chance", not skill. And for all this aggravation you get... 3 points-- okay you raised an attribute from 0 to 1, surely the game is yours now...
(Case in point, my current game has 3 lust fiends-- only one landed near it, and even he didnt wind up taking it, though he tried-- & the other two would have to cross mutliple borders to reach it).

Greed-- as stated before me-- if you build to achieve gluttony, you can achieve greed. You're subject to the same nuisances as gluttony, though since you don't have to hoard a particular kind of resource card it does give you a bit a ease in completing. I should probbly rank this higher than Lust, but meh, I can sense the nerd rage building about how one could possibly give up those magnificent 3 points already...

Sloth-- Actually quiet easy to achieve, though the potential loss prestige from diplomacy is hard to make up. In today's world of turtle games though, its actually not as bad as it sounds... In fact, taking this one while turtling will totally confuse people as to whether or not youre even trying to play the prestige game versus the alternatives. (yes, yes I can hear it in your mind, please stop whining about the 3 avatar points-- as stated its easily made up for).

Pride-- now we finally get to an objective thats not good for MP. While its a default (at least for me) for SP games, the return on investment, as stated before me, is poor as its not 3 points but 6, when compared to the most economical alternatives (gluttony, lust). 6 points can buy a very valuable perk (prince of lies, etc.). Taking Pride in MP is true to its namesake: Its willingly choosing to play in "hard" mode. Its one advantage is that its a free ten points at the end of the game. You can basically play whatever style you were already planning on, and this objective will be acheived. Its the only one thats a guarantee success in fact-- no one can force you to accept an emmisary (if they could you've lost anyhow).

Wrath-- whoa there again crazy new guy-- wrath is worst than Pride?! Yes. Pride at least is achievable in MP. Wrath, in a a normal length game, is extremely diffcult to achieve. Its relies not just on your actions but on your opponents', and they have many choices as to how prevent you from achieving this. Its possible you could surpirse someone by taking this with the "playing for keeps perk", in fact its practically mandatory... but thats alot of points on a perk and means that there's only one possible way to play this objective and have a chance-- and even then its not totally in your control-- someone else has to 'play along'. Wrath exists to make SP games at least somwehat challenging (though the real aspect of the challenge is that it forces you to play against the clock).

Given all this I think that due to it's ease, Gluttony should be reduced to 20 points reward, while pride is increased to 20 points. It might at least cause slightly more variation in public objectives for MP play (although in realtiy it would probably just make everyone choose Lust).

Edfitted multiple times-- because damn, I really can't type/spell.
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